How can you expect a person like that to be interested in gender studies at nine? XDD I only became interested in it at all in high school (when I first realized how degraded my own concepts of gender ARE), and it was too late to get twelve years in by twenty one then.

I don’t have much faith in credentials, myself– I’ve had professional doctors try to cut me open for things my stay-at-home mom fixed by changing my diet and teachers blame me for getting picked on because I had somehow “asked” for it by not fitting the social norm. (I was utterly failed by the school system.)

If someone is articulate and knows enough they don’t sound like a total idiot (and aren’t using politikspeak– so many people are impressed with politicians that use big words and don’t realize they’re not actually saying anything that means anything) then I’m usually willing to listen and provide a counterpoint if I have one. And if I’m discussing it at all, chances are I know enough about it to be comfortable with the subject.

Back to sparks and core programming.

I think that while it’s harder to change a spark, it’s possible. BA was still a “bad girl” and didn’t really change much after her shell program was removed. It may well be that she had always been that way, but we can only work from what we actually know of her. She switched loyalties but she still snuck around and wasn’t exactly honest.

When Silverbolt was “brought back,” he was emo. EMO. Really emo. DX (Sorry, pubescent Jess had a lot of problems with BM and the 180 personality changes of a lot of characters was one of them. But at least Silvie’s was for a really good reason.)

The way I’d always looked at it was that mannerisms, emotional programs, and memories and emotional connections were stored in the spark. (Possibly a few more things, but I’m working off the top of my head here. In the case of gendered TFs, “gender” would be in there too.) It’s also possible that usually memories are drowned out by outside stimuli, which is why a backup would be in the computer or brain. Motives and the way someone felt about something could still change. It would just take either longer or a really tramautic event.

It’s better to compare what happened to Silverbolt or BA to brainwashing or amnesia anyway– and you can deprogram people and/or bring them back from amnesia in many cases.

Weren’t they going to go into the idea of copied memories and such in BW, with Dinobot and D2, but then the script got scrapped? I keep hearing about that.

I’m of the personal opinion that Transformers shouldn’t be silly enough to keep their vitals in a poorly protected place like the head if they can help it. Although many people (mostly the anime guys, actually) writing battle scenes treat TF’s like guys in suits– since both losing a head and getting a sword through your chest can be fatal for a human being, that would probably explain the inconsistency. (If you went by my personal opinion, you’d almost be forced to use a spark system if you wanted the characters to be capable of dying! )

Hmmn, funny how this started out being about “whether there should be girl-bots and boy-bots.” lol

LOL.

That’s just laughable.

“Not necessarily any more than having a double X means that you’d think of yourself as female.”

Characters tend to get snapped back to supposed “core” values/programming of their spark, with the assumption that those survive separate to whatever shell program is installed (BA is a temporary reprogramming, Silverbolt survives underneath the vehicon process, etc.) It’s a bit like the way people often project onto relatives with degenerative conditions that the idealised “real” person is still inside, except actually the case.

“The main problem some people might have with it is that it shifts them from being “robots” and towards being energy-beings in robotic life-support systems.”

Doesn’t seem so unreasonable; an organic brain’s a bunch of mush plus electrical impulses… though making the transferable and restorable essence of a TF only the energy (containing a core personality, plus all memories) often comes across as more metaphysical and/or plot convenience than anything else.

Writers haven’t been consistent — sometimes decapitation is trivial, sometimes a sword to the chest is fatal. The question of whether characters might be restored from earlier copies of mind states has largely been ignored in official TF material, but handled interestingly by other science fiction writers such as Gibson and Banks.

Further fuel for debate’s provided by Prime shifting between bodies in Escalation and the use of facsimiles by Decepticons — synthetic organics that aren’t considered to be alive, more a form of biological AI. If Transformers can build organisms from a cellular level, travel faster than light and teleport, chances are rather good they can be anything they want, resources permitting. If we get a character who affects to look like a statesman from a primitive martial culture (Decimus), having some of the Kaon ruling elite choose to look like human females isn’t a stretch.

I don’t think that particularly needs a fundamental spark / core programming difference to back up; it just pleases the characters to act however they do.

“Wow. Is this still going on?”

Since the early days of science fiction writing.

THAT’S NO EXCUSE for a lack of said qualifications and experience! By way of example, a childhood acquaintance of mine, Douglas Howser (long since been a qualified Doctor), started his professional career long before he was pubescent. A true trailblazer in his field – a pity more people didn’t spend their youths as wisely as dear old Doogie.

I suppose I should point out here, in response to Joel (and to everybody throwing their credentials into the fray), that my main “credentials” are just enough psychology and sociology classes to be dangerous, way too many philosophy courses, twenty-some years of personal human observation (I, Joel, cannot reach your standards simply because I’m only twenty-one) and the fact that I have lived through those twenty one years from the viewpoint of a female who was raised by someone who actively tried to keep gender bias out of my upbringing. (And the fact that I got into HER old college books about gender study, but I found them dated, if not unhelpful.)

That doesn’t mean I have no idea what I’m talking about, Joel. PhDs spend all their time reading up on this sort of thing in a controlled environment. I’ve spent all my life doing and experiencing in the world. Both have their merits and it’s foolish to discount one or the other, even if one could be considered the subject in an amateur experiment.

Furthermore, this is the internet. How are you planning on having people prove their credentials, Joel, show you a scan of our graduation papers or something? XD

“Sparks allow emphasis on predestination”

Not necessarily any more than having a double X means that you’d think of yourself as female. The main problem some people might have with it is that it shifts them from being “robots” and towards being energy-beings in robotic life-support systems.

“Female Transformers should not be ignored simply because the fanboys don’t want any girls in their clubhouse.”

Considering this is supposedly a male-dominated fandom (not so much as many fans think) I’m amazed there aren’t MORE female TFs, at least in the media geared toward teenagers. But yes, for a lot of us, the “no girls allowed” thing is a huge part of the issue.

Being told “no because you’re a girl” is humiliating and frustrating at best. At worst, you’re “lucky” if you just get beat up for “stepping out of line.” (In some countries you’re “lucky” if you get raped.) Most of the United States has started to get past this pretty well, but you still get asked what you were wearing if you get attacked and people still get after your employer if you’re doing heavy lifting (I’ve had that happen and you have no idea how insulting it is), so it remains an issue.

“As a man, can Simon Furman credibly write female characters?”

Hey, we’re just people. XD If he can credibly write robots, females shouldn’t be that difficult.

Women aren’t alien, they don’t think all that different from men. I’ve written several stories that feature females as the lead characters and the women I know all say I do a very good job thinking from the female perspective. So if I (someone who isn’t a professional writer can do it) then I am fully confident Simon can as well.

I wouldn’t consider the TFs robots, I would consider them Sentient Robotic Life Forms. A robot does not feel or think, it is a mindless automoton. The Transformers are obviously not that.

They have a spiritual almost religious belief in their thoughts of Primus and Unicron, they have obvious male and female personalities and they can think, reason, and feel pain, love and anger as well as any of the rest of us so-called humans can.

I would say those are easily grounds for keeping female TFs in the fiction.

Scott: UWA, Ceredigion and Poland (sidebar: English is one of the few European languages that doesn’t gender the word “robot” as male, though you could always say TFs aren’t robots since they’re considered to be sentient. “Robotic life forms”, perhaps?)

Most of the points made are either linguistics or science, not questioning character self-identification, but we can take a detour via gender theorists. Already touched upon has been gender as performative, with seemingly little argument that characters might act any way they please, and some agreement that it’s as sound a basis for them to act female as for them to act male. (Still a bit dubious about writers who have Laserbeak communicating only in squawks, though.)

L’écriture feminine, then — what makes a Transformer’s physical reality female? As a man, can Simon Furman credibly write female characters? And most importantly, does anyone reckon IDW could get Gail Simone onboard for a series?